Oprah and Ellen

Oprah: Would you say that coming out was the seminal moment in your life?

Ellen: Oh yeah, because it stripped everything away. The whole world was talking about me. You know, if you're going o be honest with yourself, you have to admit that you go into show business wanting people to talk about you and wanting everyone to knopw who you are. But that also means there are going to be a whole bunch of people who don't like you. No matter who you are. I'm sure there's somebody out there who doesnt like Betty White because she's short and has white hair.

O: Refresh my memory: At what point did you make the decision to come out? You were three years into your sitcom?

E: I was four years in, because the fifth is when they canceled me. I think I've told you about a dream I had. i was struggling with the idea of coming out - what it would do to my career and to me - and in this dream, i was holding a tiny finch in the palm of my hand. i could feel how much i loved this bird and that it was safe in its cage - one of these thin, bamboo, beautiful, multitiered cages - and as i was putting the bird back in, i realised that the cage was against a window and the bird could fly out. the bird realised it at the same time i did, and i became the bird. and the bird looked at me and wanted to fly out, but i looked at the bird and said, "but u're safe in here in a beautiful cage. don't leave." and the bird just looked at me and flew out over the window.

O: wow.

E: So i was like, okay, i know what that meant. until then i'd had no idea i was in a cage. i was in this beautiful setting, and i was making money and had everyone taking care of me.
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O: But it's so important to say that out loud so people can see for themselves how the things that broke you open actually allowed you to be set free.

E: I think Diane Sawyer told me she read something that said te cracks in your heart let the sun shine through. i just thought that was beautiful. and it's all part of balance. i'm a comedian, and i definitely see the humour in a lot of things. i am also sad a lot. i cry often and easily. i think you're supposed to feel all kinds of things. you're supposed to laugh, you're supposed to cry, you're not supposed to shove your feelings under the rug. i was raised in an atmosphere of "everything's fine." but as i got older, i was like, "well no, everything's not fine. there is stuff that's sad." I am a really sensitive person. i think i am too sensitive sometimes, especially in this business.
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O: Okay. So, when i saw you at the photo shoot for the cover, what i was most struck by was the light in your eyes.

E: Well, of course there was a light - i was with you!

O: [laughs] No, there really was a twinkle in your eye that comes only from a sense of well-being. i'm telling you, i recognise it when i see it. what's that all about for you?

E: you told me you wanted to talk about this, so i was thinking about it. and i asked my massage person: what is it about me that you think is balanced?

O: [laughs] that's like when Gayle was invited to speak about self-esteem and she calls me and says, "how do i feel about self-esteem"" so your massage person said...

E: She said i constantly challenge myself. she has known me for 11 years, and she said when something goes wrong, instead of running away from it, i look at it and go "what's my part in it, what's my responsibility?"